Cetalox has a kind of Ambergris scent, it's musk, amber, animalic, soft, clean and slightly sweet. More than 70 years of synthesis experience and multi-purpose plants enable TCI to offer more than 30,000 products as well as custom synthesis. CETALOX for fragrance: Odor Description: An extremely powerful and elegant amber note CETALOX gives rich, elegant effects to all areas of perfumery from sheer florals to modern orientals. /I10 70 0 R It is generally insoluble in water, but soluble in organic solvents like ethanol. Ambroxane is useful as it provides the following benefits: In the past, Ambergris has been used in the field of perfumery due to its unique scent which is delightful among individuals. purity of 96% compared to Ambrox DL which has 85%. Sourced from around the world, our F&F ingredient inventory in Singapore is ready to ship to any location in Asia and beyond. Sign up for email updates (including Into The Gloss stories and event invites, plus Glossier launches and product info). Cetalox has a min. Ambroxane is also useful in aromatherapy as it produces a sense of relaxation. We create perfumes and flavors for the World's most desirable brands. This is the reason that you typically seeFragranceas an ingredient in many perfumes or scented skincare or lotion products. The evidence from animal studies and basic human studies have shown some indications that they may have impacts on birth defects and development. /XObject << This is supported by our long-standing relationships with a worldwide fabric of producers ensuring the greatest prospects for uninterrupted supply in markets that are often volatile and unpredictable. Cetalox (sometimes called Ambroxan, depending on who makes it - different fragrance companies have different names for it) is a synthetic form of ambergris that's widely used in fragrances today. Manufacturer and supplier of high quality flavor and fragrance ingredients. We proudly offer our quality Natural ingredients to companies around the world. Cetalox Perfume - Dossier Perfumes Difference between Ambroxan, Ambrox Super, Cetalox and - Basenotes An elegant amber note with a rich woody character. Pell Wall make fragrances for men, for women and for the home. Sunaux International was founded in 2012 by the owner Mr.John Felton after spending 18 years involved in developing global business in the aromatic chemicals, fragrance and flavour compounds business. New fragrances from D.S & Durga, Plumes and Steamed Rainbows, Ellis Brooklyn launches new scent, Florist, composed by Frank Voelkl, Robertet acquire Spanish natural ingredient processor, Aroma Esencial, New soliflore from House of Matriarch - Mother of all Roses, Alfred Dunhill fragrance license up for grabs, New look for Caswell-Massey, plus new scent: 2571. /ProcSet 4 0 R /F1 8 0 R Uses Cetalox gives rich, elegant effects to all areas of perfumery from sheer florals to modern orientals. Not a Perfume supposedly works in the way that adding salt to what youre cooking doesnt make it salty, it brings out the other flavors in the dish. Cetalox (Firmenich) - Perfumer Supply House PERFUMERY USAGE AMBROX SUPER is highly diffusive and brings a unique ambery effect from top notes to dry down. Odor Description - A synthetic ambergris scent (sweet, musky, amber), used in many perfumes as well as laundry detergents. /F4 31 0 R This means that it can be used on people that would generally shy away from other perfumes or personal fragrances like eau de toilettes or eau de parfums that might have allergenics, phthalates, or other chemicals that could react adversely with ones own body chemistry. Think white leather (Cetalox) vs. beige coloured leather (Ambrox Super, Ambrofix or Ambroxan), The odour and uses of Cetalox This Perfume Smells Like Nothing | Into The Gloss All our products are created using fine quality ingredients, many of which we also offer for sale to other perfumers and enthusiasts. The wholesale pricing is based on a bulk 25-kilogram purchase. These cookies do not store any personal information. While ambroxan can have a powerful impact on the fragrance complex and be very noticeable, Cetalox would impact the complex in a deeper way, making it more animalic (ambergris way) with a little bit less diffusion. Since 2001 TAYTONN has been distributing key ingredients to the Fragrance and Flavor industry in Asia. /I3 59 0 R In addition,Not a Perfumeseems to be a scarce comparison to most personal fragrances today. We fully understand the demands of the F&F industry and we endeavour to supply quality products, with ready availability and a personalised service. TIA. M&U dedicates itself to the development and production of new products as well as continuously promoting those new products. MFK's BR540 smelled like an electrical fire in a dentist's office to me. I am fairly anosmic to ambroxan and ambrox super. Has a very pillowy feel to it! This would be some Emperors New Clothes stuff if it really turned out to be waterthe number one ingredient in most of the beauty products in my bathroom. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Ambrofix GivaudanAmbroxide Cryst SymriseAmbrox Super FirmenichAmbermor IFFAmbermor EX IFF. Usage: This ingredient provides warmth, richness and elegance to all areas of perfumery from sheer florals to modern ambers. We continuously strive to advance our technology. Naphtho[2,1-b]furan, dodecahydro-3a,6,6,9a-tetramethyl-. We have industry leading processes and procedures to ensure nothing but the most reliable product. The Lermond Company is a women-owned distributor of raw materials primarily servicing the flavor and fragrance industry. Its molecular weight is 236.39 g/mol. We combine our knowledge about consumers ever- changing needs with creativity and ground-breaking technologies. I loved the sultriness at the start of Gucci Guilty Intense Femme and yup, 2 hours in, it did the same thing Not a Perfume did :(. In my opinion Ambroxan Super is the most "Fine" and "Wow", anyway they are different molecules. >> It certainly induced a bit of familiarity with clothes drying in the sunshine, but only for the first few moments of the initial scent. Fragrance is used as a catch-all term for what usually amounts to a complex proprietary blend of chemicals that you and I have likely never heard of. Smell of Cetalox/Ambroxan to different people? : r/fragrance Cetalox in its pure form is a crystalline substance, and is always used with some sort of dissolvent in personal fragrances to achieve liquid form. Weve maintained a steady supply&demand relationship with a large number of manufacturers at home and abroad. Most places will add other scents so you have things like this and this. A recent example had a2.4 pound chunk of ambergrisselling for almost $20,000 USD in France (the link also has a video demonstrating what raw ambergris looks like). I remember reading a while back that Not a Perfume is not just Cetalox. Leading the Flavor and Fragrance Industry since 1980. Why does Cetalox/Ambroxan smell so different to different people? Cetalox. It may also be used as a component of the treatment options for depression and other psychological illnesses. 2020 All rights Reserved. Errare umanum est. Add to cart. NOTE - This material is white to off-white crystals. Ambroxan is a fairly simple, two-dimensional fragrance, with a pronounced masculine tendency. You must log in or register to reply here. Yeah, probably. According to creatingperfume.com, ambrox super has this cas number: 3738-00-9. I've noticed this burning rubber smell in other perfumes as well, I wonder if that is also the Ambroxan? A diverse range of products, all meeting our stringent commitment to quality. Ambroxane may also be used to cover up the smell of tobacco and improve the aroma of many other cosmetic products. From AMBROX to CETALOX, a Firmenich family of ingredients with history and legacy.1993 - Firmenich launches CETALOX. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases: FDA Substances Added to Food (formerly EAFUS): EFSA Update of results on the monitoring of furan levels in food: EFSA Previous report: Results on the monitoring of furan levels in food: EFSA Report of the CONTAM Panel on provisional findings on furan in food: dodecahydro-3a,6,6,9a-tetramethyl naphtho(2,1-b)furan, naphtho[2,1-b]furan, dodecahydro-3a,6,6,9a-tetramethyl-, (3aR,5aS,9aS,9bR)-, tetramethyl-13-oxatricyclo[8.3.0.04,9]tridecane, tetramethyl-2,4,5,5a,7,8,9,9b-octahydro-1H-benzo[e][1]benzofuran. R Renegade The Egyptians burned it as an offer or gift, and in the Arabian cultural area, the fragrance was just as well known as in the coastal regions of the Indian Ocean. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. Sign up for a TCI account today for fast and free shipping! Our company prides itself in the ability to cater to our customers specific needs while maintaining our focus on integrity, honesty and the commitment to high quality product standards. I used to be very sensitive to it but I kinda gotten used to it now because everyone and their mother wreaks of it here where I live. Like what you see? We're a global, diverse, open community of adults that connect to discuss, share knowledge, experience, and love of perfumes. I tried Not a Perfume Superdose (single note of Cetalox) and hated it on such a gut level. endobj Now its time to smell like nothing. If you have any questions about our products and services, feel free to visit our website at Nutriavenue.com and inquire. . The net weight of each drum is about 25 kilograms. US perfumery, Caswell-Massey has unveiled a new look for its signature 1999 - 2023, Basenotes International Ltd. BCM Box 1111, London, WC1N 3XX, United Kingdom. We currently represent the following companies, as their North American distributor: Innovation and commitment in the name of excellence. Odour=> ambergris dry woody root orris Now that some time had passed, I wanted to bring this question up again for 2021 as Ambrox Super is wildly available now from retailers/distributors. With more than 1700 references permanently available from stock, we offer a just-in-time response to our customer needs, being able to deliver from 1kg to several tonnes all over the world. With a little antiquated book research, and some Internet sleuthing, I discovered that Ambroxan/Cetalox is indeed a very common base note in the world of personal fragrances. One-pot synthesis of ()-Ambrox. It is an organic heterotricyclic compound and a diterpenoid. /I2 58 0 R Choose an option 200g 25g 5g 60g. Cetalox perfume ingredient, Cetalox fragrance and essential oils Cetalox Group: MUSK, AMBER, ANIMALIC SMELLS You can search this perfume note in combination with other notes if you use Search by notes Cetalox Perfumes Juliette Has A Gun Not A Perfume Superdose unisex 2019 Juliette Has A Gun Not A Perfume female 2010 Monolab Hannibal unisex 2019 Odor Description A synthetic ambergris scent (sweet, musky, amber), used in many perfumes as well as laundry detergents. Produced from a natural starting material, this chiral product contains one main high impact isomer. In the event that youre curious, ambergris is very rarely harvested directly from the digestive tract of sperm whales, but can be harvested from the secretion as it floats in certain coastal areas. But now Im desensitized from smelling it everyday on people I know. >> The size of the steam-volatile fraction, in which the odoriferous principles of ambergris are concentrated, can vary by a factor of 5 (Stoll, 1959) depending on the quality and can reach 0.3 % in good samples (Ruzicka et al, 1948b). Ambergris translates to gray amber from French, and refers largely to the way it looks in its raw form. Well, it's probably because we're all different on a genetic level. Juliette Has a Gun derives its name from the work of Shakespeare, but with a modern sense of empowerment. BOC Sciences provides a wide range of services to support the pharmaceutical industry through all stages of drug discovery including Custom Synthesis of those chemicals that are not in stock, Isotope Labeling Service, Chiral Synthesis and Resolution, Bioconjugation, PEGylation services, analytical services. It is a subtle, naturally earthy scent, creating a nice base to be added on, and is soluble in ethanol. Here is a breakdown of what is actually in Not a Perfume: Its only about 7.5% Cetalox in the original. Foreverest Resources Ltd. is a materials supplier, exporting gum turpentine based, terpene derivertives and natural/extracted monomers and intermediates from China since 1988. Cetalox has a fine dry waxy ambergris note used in animallic, mens, chypre and oriental perfumes and as an all round fixative. Sophisticated, but sassy. Glossier Inc., 123 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10013, Your password needs to be at least 6 characters long, Shopping Bag ({{(ctrl.user.last_order && !ctrl.user.last_order.completed_at ? Over 30,000 Reagents available today in benchtop to bulk quantities. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. The rule of thumb with any personal fragrance is tofind one that works specifically for you, and the reaction it has with your body, regardless of the ingredients, as long as you are comfortable putting it on your body. Innospec Widnes Limited /Kids [6 0 R Purification, partial characterization and substrate specificity of a squalene cyclase from Bacillus acidocaldarius. This is the same cas number as ambroxan, they should be the same molecule for the most part. Odor Type Ambery (main) woody (secondary). Ambroxane is also useful as it provides a fleeting effect for other perfume ingredients. store in cool, dry place in tightly sealed containers, protected from heat and light. I think the simple answer to your question comes down to body chemistry and unfortunately, some of us are super sensitive to ambroxan and cetalox, especially when it comes into contact with our skin. Ambreous naphthofuran, Dodecahydro-3a,6,6,9a-tetramethylnaphto(2,1-b)furan, (3aR,5aS,9aS,9bR)-3a,6,6,9a-tetramethyl-2,4,5,5a,7,8,9,9b-octahydro-1H-benzo[e][1]benzofuran, Jiangyin Healthway International Trade Co., Ltd. Tianjin Danjun International Trade Co., LTD. Cetalox is just a variation of Ambroxan, it is slightly different but I don't know if it's worth the extra price. The addition of Ambroxan is known to amplify particularly heart notes, but this is not noticeable until after a few days of blending it in. /I9 68 0 R Small amounts (< 0.01 ppm) are used as a flavoring in food. Cetalox (Firmenich) 5.00 out of 5. Sigma-Aldrich also provides a suite of analytical tools that allow food analysts to simplify sample preparation, cleanup and analysis steps, while increasing sensitivity to trace ingredients and harmful substances to meet regulations and quality standards. Get free samples, pricing and stock list. Weve developed an extensive network and because of our relationships with these manufacturers, were able to provide a stable supply of great quality materials. Not all perfume is for sharing in a cloud on the elevator in your office. This partnership concept has been and continues to be the foundation and guiding principle for all of Vigon's activities. No minimum orders. endobj Voice: +39 039.685.6262. Nothing clean. Much better than regular Ambroxan. endobj /GS6 37 0 R level 2. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Ambrox and ambroxan are trade names from two different company's but of the same chemical. /Resources << Augustus Oils Ltd, in harmony with nature - to present it at its best A wealth of experience, expertise and knowledge has allowed Augustus to bridge the gulf in expectation and trust between growers and users of natural ingredients. Some history and chemical notes. With a focus on providing the highest level of service. We work closely with customers, principals and vendors. TCI provides organic laboratory chemicals as well as pharmaceutical, cosmetic and functional materials. These genetic differences mean that when two people smell the same molecule, one person may detect a floral odor while another smells nothing at all. I had heard the term thrown around before in reference to the base notes of many common perfumes, but began to wonder: What is Cetalox? Enhanced richness, warmth and depth can be achieved at lower dosages while, at higher levels, it provides exceptional substantivity and performance. It is regurgitated by the whale, and floats to the top of the water, and can even wash up on the shore. Or would you omit anything or move anything from second order to first? Ambergris was already a sought-after fragrance and valuable commodity in ancient times. 48.00 month(s) or longer if stored properly. Both users and producers can then focus on exactly what they do best, while skilled Augustus technicians closely monitor and control the delivered product. Over the years this has allowed the company to develop strong relationships with many global manufacturers; several of whom we represent in the UK. Like all personal fragrances (which may be a better descriptive term for this product anyway as opposed to perfume), Not a Perfume blends with your own chemical makeup for a unique and individual scent. It has obnoxiously strong silage and longevity. Ambrox DL | Basenotes CETALOX - firmenich.com OQEMA has established itself at the forefront of the global chemical industry. /ExtGState << But are all perfumes perfume? We test every beauty product under the sun, interview our icons, and are in constant conversation with Into The Gloss readers, our customers, and community. Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. I have a really sensitive nose, for example when I'm cooking and I smell the ingredients clearly, so that could be part of it for you, too. Stable in: body lotion (very good), shampoo (very good), soap (good), ap roll-on (good), powder (very good), cleaner citric (good), cleaner apc (very good), bleach (very good). /I11 71 0 R As a general rule, it seems that the less chemicals you are putting on your skin, the better. Juliette Has a Gun's not a perfume does not contain any other allergens or phthalates, and maintains that it is completely allergen free. Id guess the majority must be people who think it smells good, otherwise they wouldnt be using it in perfumes (ambrox, ISO E super, etc). Who's got it for retail sale in hobby quantities? Check out this post on them, they are asking the same thing we are. As application product formulations vary widely this information is only a general guide. On my skin, it was mellow and faint, almost immediately after spritzing. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. /I6 64 0 R Fragonard 2018 Flower of the Year Verbena (Verveine), Fragrances of Ireland Captures the True Irish Essence, Why Luxury Candles May Still Be The Perfect Gift, How to Freshen Carpet with Home Fragrance Oils, HOW TO MAKE STOVE-TOP (OR CROCK POT) POTPOURRI WITH RECIPES. /GS23 54 0 R Juliette Has a Guns not a perfume does not contain any other allergens or phthalates, and maintains that it is completely allergen free. 3 0 obj /F2 15 0 R One of the most useful chemicals in modern perfumery. Ambroxan Crystals - Perfumer Supply House 5 0 obj Innovation and commitment in the name of excellence. /I4 61 0 R As soon as I sprayed it, it smelled exactly like a burning tire. In 1820 they isolate and characterize the Ambrein as the main component, this is practically odorless and was a fixative used in perfumery. Flexibility, availability, price and quality make LLUCH ESSENCE S.L. These chemicals can also be used to help lotions or skincare agents get deeper into the skin to achieve that smooth, glossy feel. PFW Aroma Chemicals B.V. Id also compare it to Clean Sheet Day, when you burrow your face in your pillow at night and breath deep because you know itll be gone by tomorrow. The fragrance has the typical ebb and flow of many perfumes, without the complexity of layering many substances. USA address: 1641 W Main St, Ste 222, Alhambra, CA 91801China address:Room 209 , Huana Business Center , NO 1733 Lianhua Road , Minhang District , Shanghai , China 201103, Calendula Extract: A Flower Extract for Overall Skin Health, J147: A Potential Novel Drug for Alzheimers Disease. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Through OQEMAs business divisions the company tailors products and services to better support and service our customers requirements. Berj is a family-owned business that has been in operation for six decades. This means you can just dilute them in ethanol and you get an ambergris fragrance. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. Most importantly, I discovered that both of these substances are essentially in the same category of things: synthetic forms of ambergris. /I7 65 0 R Bulk Ambroxane powder is best purchased from Nutriavenue, an FDA-registered ingredient supplier which offers high-quality products at very affordable prices. Process I bought Not a Perfume (not the superdose) last month, having fallen in love with the clean opening. Sweet, with shades of wood and old paper, Odor: natural whale amber. I love ambroxan, I have that one and it's pretty beautiful. Cetalox imparts a rich, elegant effect to all areas of perfumery from sheer florals to modern orientals. /GS15 46 0 R Ambroxan has also been known asOrcanoxpreviously, and is an interchangeable term. Enhanced richness, warmth and depth can be achieved at lower dosages while, at higher levels, it provides exceptional substantivity and performance. Cetalox is a trade name also but seems to be a specific type of Ambroxide, it has specific right handed and left handed parts of the molecule that separate it from others. In 2008, a similarly produced non-perfume Escentric Molecules Molecule 02 byGeza Schoenhad used Ambroxan to demonstrate the natural gift of imitating ambergris in a single component personal fragrance. Odor Strength High, recommended smelling in 10% DPG SOL. Cetalox is also a well-known component of perfumes and other products for its gentle and underwhelming fragrance. Ambroxan discovery dates around 1940-1950 and the First partial synthesis happened in 1950 by Firmenich SA. In contrast, Ambroxan has a lesser sweet but muskier, woodier, and more earthy scent. balsamic amber-like. What is Ambroxan? Odor: natural whale amber. /I14 76 0 R The compound is also known as having molecular formula C16H28O and CAS number 6790-58-5. Sweet, with shades of wood and old paper. In addition, Cetalox or Ambroxan ishypoallergenic, meaning that is significantly lower risk of causing an allergic reaction as opposed to most chemicals. Is there anything I'm missing out? Legislation and regulations vary widely and change with time so it is your duty to check this. The result, as quoted from Ricci himself is,minalimst, elegant, pure. I do not know why.. Reading the comments here makes me realize I love Ambroxan. This structure also allows the company to focus its marketing campaigns more effectively to certain industries. Its lightly musky, barely sweet, powdery, very clean and warm, reminiscent of Bobbi Browns Bath, which I wore for years. I was able to return it but it's upsetting b/c now I'm looking carefully at ingredients and if I see either word on the ingredient list, it's a no. While both Cetalox and Ambroxan are known to have a scent similar to Ambergris, some users of the products claim that Cetalox is more inclined to have the sweet smell rather than the woody, musky smell. /Producer ( d o m p d f. Due to the synthetic nature of the Cetalox, this pure scent may indeed last even longer than its natural counterpart in ambergris. /GS18 49 0 R Ambrox DL (Firmenich); aka Cetalox (Firmenich) Fragrance Family: Amber. It is said to be primarily responsible for the scent of ambergris, a substance found in the digestive tract of sperm whales. The second component in quantitative terms of ambergris is 24-methyl-5-cholestane-3-ol, which together with Ambreine represents about 70-90% of the unexploited mass. My first order from perfumer supply house just arrived, with Ambroxan Crystals as well. Which Dior is a better fragrance for women? BOC Sciences is a brand of BOCSCI Inc. We leverage our wide spectrum of business in the fields of development, manufacturing, marketing, and distribution to help you make best-informed decisions tailored to your evolving needs for premium chemicals. The Company works in partnership with customers on the one hand, and growers, farmers and distillers on the other. Hence, processes to obtain Ambroxane from Sclareol of Clary Sage were initiated. ] The compound has a strong woody-ambery, musky, sweet-earthy odor which makes it a well-liked aroma in the perfumery field. Unsubscribe anytime. Ventos has specialized in the distribution of raw materials for the flavour and fragrance industry. Produced from a natural starting material, this chiral product contains one main high impact isomer. Has been described as a sexy, man smell. As sperm whales are now an endangered species, strict guidelines are enforced in how ambergris can be collected. In most sources, the wholesale pricing for Ambroxan may range from $425 to $500 per kilogram. Fixateur 505E and Ambergris T Ollifac are bases, so they already smell like Ambergris. I get a vague papery, thin, dry note from them. It is clean, crisp and has a powdery depth that is also reminiscent of tobacco and clean laundry. We offers high quality raw materials for flavors and fragrances synthetic manufacturing in the world. Since there's only cetalox in there, I knew any others with it or ambroxan would be a no-go for me. Quantity. /I12 73 0 R We discourage herd preference/behavior and fragrance influencers. This is a richer, more elegant ambergris note, with more combining opportunities than ambroxan. All the restaurants have marble tables and gray linens, all the bedrooms have white, white sheets, and everyones closets are pared down to essentials. So I guess it makes sense, during whatever phase were going through right now, that one of the most popular perfumes on the market, by Juliette Has a Gun, smells like nothing at all, nothing at all. Perfumery Basics - Material Showcase: Ambroxan, Cetalox, Fixature 505E Production Distribution Sourcing Logistics Consulting. The most suitable material for obtaining an authentic ambergris note. Ambrinol and Ambroxan It is composed of only two substances: Cetalox and ethanol. At the very least Cetalox or Ambroxan seems to beat putting something derived from the digestive tract of a whale on your skin. Its chemical make-up is similar to that of ambrein, a fat-like cholesterol component that gives organic ambergris its characteristic aroma. >> Cetalox | PerfumersWorld (and apologies boosting an old thread.). Our complete suite of CRO services spans the entire molecule development pipeline including contract research for target identification, building blocks, compound synthesis, biochemical and cellular analysis, preclinical animal tests, and clinical studies. Ambroxan | C16H28O - PubChem We have about 300 kinds of products (natural aroma chemicals, synthetic aroma chemicals and pharmaceutical intermediates). CAS# 3738-00-9. With its woody-ambery, musky, sweet-earthy odor, Ambroxane has become a popular component of modern-day perfumes. SKU 1UW13850. It's so interesting now that I think about it. Juliette Has a Guns Not a Perfume has one key ingredient: Cetalox, a common base note ingredient (and hypoallergenic!). Why use it: it mimics both the fixative and aromatic properties of ambergris; is . Meeting customers increasing demands at home as well as abroad. Sclareol is bicyclic diterpene alcohol that has a sweet, balsamic smell. Its aiming to bring out your natural scent, those pheromones that will attract your future astronaut/motorcycle-riding lover. TENACITY Lasts 1 month on a smelling strip 1 MONTH 3 WEEKS 2 WEEKS 1 WEEK 4 DAYS 3 DAYS 2 DAYS 1 DAY 6 HOURS 3 HOURS 2 HOURS 1 HOUR PHYSICO-CHEMICAL PROPERTIES LOG P (MEASURED) 6.85 What makes "Not a Perfume Superdose" so divisive?
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