Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Sixth 1.28 It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. Thx I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. 1. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. Eighth 0.85 However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Shift the transmission to Neutral. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. yr=d.getFullYear(); When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. This is the abridged version of my problem. It is a dog in the summer time. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. Spin losses (i.e. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. All rights reserved. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . By Wayne Colonna. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Second 2.99 Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. Reactions: me32. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Remember, this is just a theory. Exceptional torque rating. to 885 ft. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . Hi Jeff, Always appreciate the great exchanges. Established Member. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. You are browsing camaro6. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. None of the above categories describe me. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Your email address will not be published. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). Reply. Thank you. Powertrain Expo Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. 2nazty New Member. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Copyright 2012 The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. * WILL ALLOW USE . Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. The customer approves a teardown. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). The 10L80 moniker is decoded. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Thought's? About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. 4. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. Seventh 1.00 Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. vehicle weights. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Ninth 0.69 The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. All Rights Reserved. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. GM states, ". The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3).
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