)t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Any ideas as to date range? Proof As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? firearms. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Tel: 01707 709372; source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Thanks Hause. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Bettonville - Fontaine No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Cap Joseph This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. How do I price this piece? Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. The So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Bernard Emile & Cie Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Ever seen that? Burlet Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? These Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! thank you. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Thanks again for the help! The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as Marlin-Savage-Winchester Testing the gun The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. 4 0 obj On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. By Alain Daubresse. listed in alphabetical order. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Bernard Victor & Cie Jun 21, 2012. to identify the manufacturer. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Thanks! The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Braekers Charles & Cie for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. "Cueruy" could be the maker. It's complete. I recently decided to clean it up. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Belgian Liege gunmakers Bodson TH. Christophe Henri Closset Louis (most sales were in the 1930s). BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. In addition to IMPORTANT NOTE! U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Christophe Louis As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Thank you for Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Designates rifled barrel. Cachoir Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Does it reach the touch hole? Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Bultot Jean These include the I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Behr Jean jacques the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military I have pictures If you need them. Any info will help. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. that we have found on this subject. Any idea how to date it? Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Clment Charles Philibert Counet Philippe I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Britte Frres Bastin Frres I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Bayet Frres Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Broqua & Scholberg My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Collings Hadelin The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Ancion Marx "Any maker's name or place of origin? Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Arnold Mathias Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Members . There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Clment Walter Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Arendt Maurice for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. There are a number of Miscellaneous Beuret Frres Bovy Thodore Joseph Baron Emile Colette Victor Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. houses for rent in livingston county, mi,
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